F@#* Halo?

Submitted by Richard Windsor on September 13, 2007 – 11:20 am19 Comments

Normally I have to wade through tons of fanboy garbage to find the real news, but today I came across something I found really funny. David Jaffe posted an IM conversation between himself and Adam Orth, a game designer with Sony. The conversation relates to the recent Halo 3 ads and their supposed offensiveness. Just check out the conversation for yourself:

Adam: give me a f@#*ing break:

http://kotaku.com/gaming/tease/the-teaser-for-the-halo-3-teaser

Jaffe: It’s a decent add I think. I just don’t get HALO. I don’t think the story is all that special, don’t think the world or characters matter much. I don’t know if I am simply not ‘getting it’ and it really is all that…or Microsoft has simply purchased rabid fan reactions for what is a great game but nothing more.

Adam: that ad is insulting
“belive”?
come on

Jaffe: Am I missing something?
What’s insulting about it?

Adam: well, for 1, i think it’s disrespectcful to actual veterans of real wars
and 2, they really expect people to become that invested in the halo story?
i guess i just really dislike halo and that ad aint helping

Jaffe: well that’s what I mean about buying the hype. I don’t dislike Halo at all and really liked parts of Halo 2 alot…I am in minority who felt single player halo 2 was better than halo 1 single player. I mean, I hear people talk about the flood and shit and I’m like: what? Who gives a sh$%.

Adam: halo = meh

Jaffe: As for disrespect, come on…like Medal of Honor has not been doing he same for a long time. They talk about how important the games are and they are so earnest about it but come on, they are shooters. If they really cared about doing it right, they would give the MOH teams 3 years schedules and make Bioshock meets MOH…in terms of story and character and production value. And they would make THAT the game Spielberg was directing for them.

Adam: respectfully, i’ll totally disagree with you there. MOH games take alot of care to not be disrespectful it’s one of the things they do right

JAFFE:. Hey- can I post this discussion on my blog if I don’t put your name>?

ADAM: you can post my name…

JAFFE: sweet- sadly it will rile up halo fans…hope they see that I DO LIKE HALO! I just don’t get the religious fervor and feel much of the fervor has been purchased by Microsoft. But they’ll still hate me

ADAM: f%$# halo

As much I defend anyone’s right to have an opinion, I can’t help but see Mr. Orth for what he is, a fanboy. If he doesn’t like Halo then that is fine, but it is obvious he has a hate for it because the game is so popular. I find it awfully sad that a grown man with a good job thinks no higher then a 4th grade level. I have never been a fan of the Gran Turismo Games, in fact I quite hate them, but I have never said one bad word about that game to anyone because I know there are people who like it and think it’s a great game.

His last words “F*#@# Halo” is where you really see just how much the fanboy comes alive in him. I am actually kind of sad I even posted this as it gives to much attention to someone who doesn’t deserve it, but I just hope that it serves to show that even fanboys can reside in high places.

More – [via Jaffe's Blog]

Sifer2400

WoW that is an extreme sony fanboy bitch ill bet you he would still play it tho “I am actually kind of sad I even posted this as it gives to much attention to someone who doesn’t deserve it, but I just hope that it serves to show that even fanboys can reside in high places.” Ditto i never thought a grown man would act like a 12 yr old fanboy WoW
http://www.farbot.com/ Paul (Aeropause)

The story is absolutely not the draw for Halo 3.

It’s nice to see Jaffe treating the franchise even-handedly even when given the excuse to bash it by Adam.

I keep seeing the hypemachine in overdrive over the story behind Halo, but as far as I can remember from reviews the story for the first two Halo games the single-player game really wasn’t strong. People don’t play the game because of the story. They play it because it’s a well-crafted multiplayer shooter.

Heck when Wombat (on the CAGCast) met one of the Halo 3 team or a MS rep (I forget exactly who) at a Microsoft party a few months ago he asked them if they could make the single player a much stronger experience since he gets his clock cleaned all the time online, they told him to basically go soak by saying he should just play it against bots.

Of course later, when he got to play Halo 3 at another Microsoft event for a good stretch of time he completely turned around and started singing its praises. Again, that was an all-multiplayer event because let’s face it, the story is not the draw for this game.

Now, don’t get me wrong, the story could be phenomenally good, but nobody can know that until the reviews hit and someone who has actually played it tells you so. Until then you get PR and hype which will tell you everything about the game is perfect, including single player.
http://www.fourhman.com Joe – fourhman.com

Man, I love hearing the mediocre critique things. It’s so interesting to place their comments within the frame of their body of work.

I hope this conversation didn’t take time out of Jaffe’s day full of stapling spiky body armor onto public domain IP and letting the Sony hype machine buy support for it.
Van Faulk

@ paul

Really? people don’t play Halo for the story?

Then pray tell, what exactly did I buy an xbox and Halo for, since I never bothered with live until the 360. It wasn’t multiplayer…since no one i know owned an xbox. It wasn’t online because I never had it.

So excatly why did I buy it, since you seem to be such an expert. And while you are at it, explain why i bought the 4 books, and eagerly awaited Halo 2 even though I never wanted live?

Since you seem to be able to magically tell why people buy things, I’d loev to know. i thoughht I bought it for the story, but apparnelty that just sin’t possible.
Brent

Playing Halo for the story is like going to Applebees for the food.
Richard (Aeropause)

No offense Brent but one of the main draws to Halo is the storyline. You might not find it compelling but many people do. The way you just toss it aside with a metaphor suggests to me that you have not even played the game.
Richard (Aeropause)

@Paul

I don’t know here you get the idea that the Story in Halo is second to the MP. If you have played the game and spoken with anybody in the Halo community you would know that it is not true. Halo is one of the most cinematic games and has quite a deep story..especially if you read the novels associated with it. I am sure some people don’t like it and that is fine, but the Halo universe would be nothing without its story. The MP is a huge draw but ask 100 Halo fans and they are just as excited for the Single player as they are the MP. The only difference is that one will last quite a lot longer then the other.

I just have to totally and utterly disagree with you on every basis. I guess I only played HL2 for the gravity gun huh?
Brent

Yeah, the Halo story is as compelling as the steak fajita at Applebees. I enjoy it but I know that it’s still rather middle of the road.

Actually, the story isn’t the least bit compelling. There are a good 10 to 15 more compelling stories in videogames. (See Bio Shock for the most recent example)

Halo is third rate science fiction that ‘borrows’ a few too many plot points from other sources. And what the hell is ‘The Flood’. It’s like they didnt have enough ideas so they threw in some horror story crap.

and hell, that steak fajita isn’t all that good either. Rather gamey flavor if they put it in the microwave too long.

But if you like Richard then enjoy. Hell, I’m a big fan of the classic 1980 movie “Flash Gordon” but I dont confuse it as compelling story telling.

p.s. I did play the game. Badly of course. But I played it.
Richard (Aeropause)

@ Brent

I think you confuse your own tastes with what compelling story telling is. Bioshock is a great game but is in no way telling a new story. The themes that reside in almost every game are borrowed from mythology and past literature. Your constant bickering about the story of the game only serves to show how biased against it you are. I would rather take my own opinion and that of the 7 million people who like the story over yours. Plus your metaphors are pretty dumb as well.

If you don’t like Halo story that is fine by me. It just means that one person wasn’t able to see past their lack of understanding, but instead decided to male applebee’s refrences.
Brent

yup, you’re right Richard. I’ve confused my tastes with what is empirically compelling story telling.

Personally I prefer stuff like Thomas Pynchon’s V & Gravity’s Rocket, Shakespeare’s Richard III, Kurt Vonnegut’s Breakfast of Champions, Hunter S. Thompson’s Fear & Loathing in Las Vegas, Phillip K. Dick’s Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep, Irvine Welsh’s Filth, Hubert Selby’s Last Exit To Brooklyn, Jeff Smith’s Bone, Tolkein’s Lord of the Rings, and James Ellroy’s American Tabloid to the more compelling Halo story.

But that’s just me. I’ve got no understanding of what a story entails. Guess that A+ I got in College Literature was a complete fluke.
Leon

I really like the picture
Videogame Guru

You are all a bunch of idiots.

If you want to talk about great Videogame stories you need to go to the classics like Pac-Man. It was an existential tale of an ‘everyman’ caught up in the maze of life being chased by his four ‘ghost’ enemies representing anxiety, fear, responsibility and ultimately death. Even Fellini could not have captured the essence of life in a more minimalist yet dreamlike manner.

Or consider the great epic of science fiction Missile Command. The mysteries abounded in this thriller of suspense. Who were raining strikes down upon this world. Who inhabited the six cities? Who were the brave commanders of the missile silos protecting the cities?

And finally Pole Position. It went where movies such as Gumball Rally, Bobby Deerfield, Days of Thunder, and Spinout dared not go. It had breakneck speed. Race cars screaming around the tightest of corners. And photo finishes. All for a quarter.
ash

I’m a Halo fan and as much as I love the multiplayer, I’m probably looking forward to the single player much more.
*Not* because of the story though – the experience itself is what matters. The plot is much of a muchness. There’s no doubt at all that Bungie have put a huge amount of work into creating the universe and fleshing it out. I’ve also heard good things about the novels too. But the plot of Halo never grabbed me half as much as the actual combat did. The cutscenes can be a little boring. With the way Bioshock slowly reels you in and integrates the storytelling into the game…there’s just no comparison between the two in terms of plot and narrative.

And don’t even get me started on Halo 2. I’ve played that campaign three times over and I’m still not sure exactly what happened. There’s holes in the narrative that aren’t well explained unless you’re willing to do some outside reading yourself and it’s just generally a mess. Even Bungie, when they talk about 2, acknowledge that.

I’m not saying that there weren’t those who enjoyed the story, but the reason why Halo has sold millions and millions is for the same reason that Mario has done so: whether in singleplayer or multiplayer, it’s just damn fun!
Richard (Aeropause)

@ Brent

So you have a good college education and you think that makes you an expert in what makes a good story? Last time I checked things like that are very subjective. All I am saying is that your tastes differ from some people and as such doesn’t mean your opinion is right. It also means that mine isn’t right either, but we can still argue.

The fact that you comparing video games to literature is kinda funny. I mean I do see the correlation, but reading and playing a game require much different views towards the medium.

You can claim to be smart all day long that doesn’t change the fact that you are in the minority.
Brent

@ Richard, the man who speaks for the masses

Quality in art is not subjective. It’s why we know that Jeff Koons is no Picasso. It’s why we know that Anne Rice is no William Faulkner. It’s why we know that Uwe Boll is no Martin Scorsese. And it’s why we know Halo 3 is no Zelda.

It’s what those of us who went to college found out. Critical Thinking Skills are far superior to videogame playing ability.
Richard (Aeropause)

@ Brent

Wow..just wow…If you did go to college then you know that everything except facts are subjective. Simply because no one likes Koons doesn’t mean his art is worse then anyone elses. It just means that pretentious people like yourself like to judge things to make themselves feel like they are superior in some way. Kinda sad really.

I don’t in anyway speak for the masses. A blog is about opinion and nothing more. The only time I represent the masses is when posting facts.

I can clearly see now that you are just some uptight whiny elitist who thinks his “opinions” are engraved in all our reality. You seriously need to relax and remember that we are talking about video games…I guess they don’t teach common sense at your college.
Sifer2400

lmaoooo “I guess they don’t teach common sense at your college.” oooo spanked lolll j/k
Richard (Aeropause)

Oh and by the way Brent, I to went to college. Still finishing up as a matter of fact, it makes me sad that someone like yourself can’t comprehend the difference between opinion and fact. Please tell me you are not a scientist…that wouldn’t be a good career choice for you.
Brent

so rather than actually debate my stated facts on the merits of their own case you went with attacking me personally and restating your own little idea without providing any evidence.

Guess in between playing videogames in your dorm room, eating pizza and avoiding girls you weren’t making it to very many classes. (See it is fun to make the personal attack instead of trying to debate the merits of the other person’s ideas)

p.s. I think you are the first human to defend Jeff Koons other than Michael Jackson. So bully for you!